Wednesday, December 30, 2015
Monday, December 28, 2015
Saturday, December 26, 2015
Thursday, December 24, 2015
Orthodox Rabbis Bring Jesus Home for Christmas
Thursday, December 24, 2015 | David Lazarus
More than 25 prominent rabbis from Israel and abroad recently issued a statement calling for a renewed look at Jesus, Christians and the New Testament faith. Quoting from their own sages, these outstanding Orthodox rabbis are not ashamed to exalt the name of Jesus, welcoming the carpenter from Nazareth back into the Jewish fold.
“Jesus brought a double goodness to the world,” declare the group of well-known rabbis. “On the one hand he strengthened the Torah of Moses majestically… and not one of our Sages spoke out more emphatically concerning the immutability of the Torah,” and on the other hand “he removed idols from the nations.”
Saying that Jesus, even more that any other Jewish Sage, honored, strengthened and protected the “immutability of the Torah,” is an extraordinary acknowledgement. These leading rabbis are turning the tides of history by removing one of the main stumbling blocks in the path of a major Jewish reclamation of Jesus!
You will recall, that religious Jews rejected Jesus from the beginning, with the accusation that he did not obey the Torah, therefore he could not be the awaited Messiah. In the New Testament, we find the Pharisees arguing with Jesus over Sabbath rules, dietary laws, ritual cleanliness, marriage regulations and more. They insisted that Jesus cannot be the Messiah because “he is teaching everywhere not to obey Moses.” (Acts 6:14)
What we are now witnessing is the undoing of 2,000 years of Jewish rejection and animosity towards Jesus, a miracle by any estimation. For the out-and-out refusal by Jews to accept Jesus is slowly, but surely, coming to an end, as growing numbers of prestigious Orthodox rabbis welcome Jesus back.
And there is more. “After nearly two millennia of mutual hostility and alienation, we Orthodox Rabbis who lead communities, institutions and seminaries in Israel, the United States and Europe… seek to do the will of our Father in Heaven by accepting the hand offered to us by our Christian brothers and sisters,”the statement reads.
Two thousand years of Christian Anti-Semitism, Crusades, Inquisitions and a Holocaust can not keep the Star of Bethlehem from rising again in Israel. This call by these distinguished rabbis to embrace Christians as “brothers and sisters” is no less a miracle. For Jews to accept Christians with such endearment, after so much misunderstanding and anti-Semitic ugliness, can only be understood as a divine work of heavenly grace, the likes of which I find unfathomable.
For as this group of Orthodox rabbis points out, it is their “Father in Heaven” who is calling the Jewish people to lay down the past, put aside the enmity, and willingly embrace Christians and their faith in Jesus. That, my friends, is the deeper work of the Holy Spirit as spoken about throughout Scripture.
As Rabbi Dr. Eugene Korn, Academic Director of the Center for Jewish-Christian Understanding & Cooperation points out, “This proclamation’s breakthrough is that influential Orthodox rabbis across all centers of Jewish life have finally acknowledged that… Christianity and Judaism have much in common spiritually and practically. Given our toxic history, this is unprecedented in Orthodoxy.”
In their statement, the rabbis want to find a way to acknowledge the differences between Christian and Jewish beliefs, without taking, or giving, offensive. _“As did Maimonides and Yehudah Halevi, we acknowledge that Christianity is neither an accident nor an error, but the willed divine outcome and gift to the nations. In separating Judaism and Christianity, G-d willed a separation between partners with significant theological differences, not a separation between enemies,” _the statement concludes.
These so-called “significant theological differences” between Christianity and Judaism are really about Jesus. He is the stumbling block. Jesus may be Messiah, Son of the Living God for the Gentiles, but my Jewish people are still not quite sure just who he is for them. So while these rabbis are making major and unprecedented strides in bringing my people closer to Jesus, they are still far from the truth. For if Jesus is the Messiah for the Gentiles, how much more must he be for the Jews?
Perhaps Jesus will not quite be at home this Christmas in Israel, or Jewish homes around the world, but he is certainly knocking on the door.
CLICK HERE to read the statement and see the list of rabbis involved.
Wednesday, December 23, 2015
Tuesday, December 22, 2015
Saturday, December 19, 2015
Calvinisim versus Catholicism Part 2
Calvinism vs. Catholicism? with Jim McCarthy (part 2)
Gary: Welcome to Search the Scripture 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call featuring T. A. McMahon. I'm Gary Carmichael. Thanks for being here. In today's program, Tom wraps up a two-part series with guest Jim McCarthy. Here's TBC executive director, Tom McMahon.
Tom: Thanks, Gary. Well, welcome back. I hope you had the opportunity to listen to the first part of the series. Jim and I are actually - we had last week, and we're going to finish it up this week.
Our topic is Calvinism. But we're approaching it a little differently. This is not an apologetics thing. We're not arguing back and forth about Calvinism. What Jim is helping me with is over the years, Calvinism is one of the most puzzling belief systems, and if you're familiar with The Berean Call, you know we've looked at quite a few things. But my concern here is that we're talking about something within the church. We're not talking about Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses or whatever it might be, in a cultic fashion. We're talking about a belief system that has greatly influenced Christianity - Christendom - in the last 500 years. And it's growing stronger. I could say, I think, and back it up, that today - or at least within the last ten years - it has become militant, aggressive; it has split churches. It's just a burden for me and a concern that I have. Why? Because, number one, I have family members who are Calvinists. Number two, I have great friends - and I really mean good friends. We probably don't go to this issue, although I would like to, from time to time, address these things because I'm concerned about the teachings and all of that.
Well, anyway, here to help me through this, as I mentioned, is Jim McCarthy. He's the author of a terrific book, The Gospel according to Rome, which is, if you want to understand Catholicism, especially from an experiential standpoint, which very few books out there on apologetics related to Catholicism supply. But Jim was Roman Catholic for...25 years?
Jim: Twenty-five years, Tom.
Tom: So, again, Jim McCarthy is my guest. He also wrote John Calvin Goes to Berkeley, which I recommend. We talked about this last week because he just gave a slice of life...well, Jim, tell them why you...if they haven't heard our first program, tell them why you wrote a book like that.
Jim: I wrote it because I was troubled over these doctrines myself and it was brought on by a student group that I was involved with at UC Berkeley, and we had several people in it that were strong Calvinists and many people that weren't, and I was teaching this Bible study and I found myself in the middle of this, and found there are some pretty hard verses on both sides. And many years later I decided to write about it in the form of a novel. That's what John Calvin is, and I set it there at UC Berkeley and retold some of the things that actually happened as a way of just kind of bringing out the different issues so that people could understand the controversy, understand what the Bible says, but also understand some of the attitudes and some of the divisiveness that comes about when people overemphasize these doctrines.
Tom: Jim, as we finished up last week's program, one of the things I want to address in this session is predestination. And you could throw sovereignty in there, and so on. But last week we also addressed T.U.L.I.P., the five points of Calvinism. And, Jim, you mentioned just as we were closing down that the five points are connected. There's a relationship between them. So if somebody says that they're a four-point or a three-point or even a one-point Calvinist, there are issues that - they all seem to be connected and saying and supporting the same idea. And it goes back to lack of free will and God predestining some to hell and some...you know, it's called double predestination, and that would be...I don't know any Calvinist who could deny that. They may define it a little differently, but basically, before time began, God, for His own pleasure, had predestined millions, perhaps billions, to the Lake of Fire. And they had no say in it. So, that's an issue, and I'm going to talk about that toward the end of the program, but going back to the five points, many would say, "I don't believe in Unlimited Atonement." So, Jim, my question is, "Are you saying you don't believe...[not you, but a Calvinist says he doesn't believe] in Unlimited Atonement?" But doesn't Irresistible Grace say the same thing? Or Total Depravity? Or Salvation of the Elect? Am I missing something here?
Jim: Well, I don't think you are. All five points are inter-related and dependent upon each other. So when you talk about Unconditional Election, for instance, it's the Calvinist doctrine that God...I wouldn't say arbitrarily, but in His secret counsel, for reasons that we can't understand, they say, chose which individuals go to heaven and which would go to hell. And then He sent His Son to die for those who He chose would go to heaven. And so you can see the relationship there. Like what's the point of dying for somebody who can't go to heaven? So it's called a "particular redemption." He died for a particular group of people.
And it's the same with the other points of Calvinism - they're all interrelated. If you really say you agree with one of them, as defined by the Calvinist, you sort of end up with all of them. For instance, the first one: Total Depravity. If you see that as not just that we're unrighteous and sinful before God, but we're like cadavers that can't respond to God, well then you can't choose to repent and believe in Christ. It's something God must do for you because you're unresponsive, and so you end up with Unconditional Election. There's nothing about you...in fact, you can't even move. And so it all fits together, Tom.
Tom: Now, again, the reason I want to talk about this is because in this belief system of Calvinism, some people don't get all of it but they're attracted to it, they get some of it. Jim, my heartbreak here is that if this - to say it kindly - mischaracterizes God, and some would say it's a slander against the character of God, but if these things that we're going to be talking about - if they are contrary to the character of God, then we've got some problems. We've got some real problems, and I'm going to talk about that in a minute. But, for example, how bad can this get? Well, I'm going to quote you John Calvin, who said, "I say with Augustine," (we talked about that last week, Augustine, the doctor, father of the Roman Catholic Church), "I say with Augustine that the Lord has created those who, as He certainly foreknew, were to go to destruction, and He did so because He so willed. Why He willed? It is not ours to ask."
This is where the "mystery" comes in, and, for example, John MacArthur, whom I respect in many ways for his teachings, but that's what he would say that... I don't know if I said this or if you said it, but it's a "mystery," according to him. You know, you can get so far within the system, and then you've just got to bail out and say, as we said as Catholics, "It's mystagogy." (There's another Catholic connection.) But let me show you how far this goes.
This is Calvinist R. C. Sproul, Jr. - he writes, "God wills all things that come to pass... God desires for man to fall into sin...God desired for man to fall into sin...God created sin."
Again, another Calvinist writes, "God is in back of everything. He decides and causes all things to happen. He has foreordained everything after the counsel of His will: the moving of a finger...the beating of a heart...the laughter of a girl...the mistake of a typist. Even sin."
Not good, Jim. Not good.
Jim: Well, you know, Tom, that's exactly what they teach, and I don't understand it. These guys are a lot brighter than me, and yet when I hear them say these things, it just strikes me as not only odd, but incredibly unbiblical.
Tom: Yes.
Jim: And what you've just said about God controlling every single thing, John Piper says the same, even to the dust motes floating in the air. And he goes on to say that if you really think about God controlling every aspect of life down to the last minute, it'll drive you crazy, it'll simply drive you mad, is what he says. But what doctrine? What true doctrine would drive a person crazy? Doesn't it kind of tell you there's something absurd about this, and you've gone down the wrong somewhere and we're lost? When you end up with a conclusion like R. C. Sproul, Jr., that God is author of sin? It's ridiculous!
Tom: You see, and I'm...folks, I'm not trying to rail against Calvinism. What I'm trying to do is appeal to...just as Jim articulated, we're trying to appeal...to say, "Wait a minute! Let's come to your senses here. This makes no sense whatsoever!" And look, not that we lean on our understanding, but wait a minute! We're talking about the Word of God. It does not line up.
And I know there are going to be those out there who say, "You know, you're talking about hyper-Calvinism." Jim, I don't know any Calvinist that does not push the sovereignty of God and this idea of predestination. And Calvinists teach that God's foreknowledge actually foreordains things to take place. So where's free will?
Jim: Well, there is no free will. You know, and I'm sure we have some people listening to this, Tom, who are going, "This is... this is an exaggeration. They don't believe this." And I would just invite any of your listeners, go on YouTube and search on "Has God predetermined every detail in the universe including sin?" and there's a short clip there of only six minutes by John Piper, and he'll say it in his own words for you. There's no free will, and so God has to be the author of sin because Adam didn't have free will, you and I don't have free will. It's all determined by God. Everything that happens.
So you could view life as just a giant puppet show! We are playing out the script that God has ordained, and God is sitting back and watching us do what He has ordained us to do and is somehow getting pleasure from this!
I don't know what you - you grew up in the world with your dad being a psychiatrist - is that psychosis? Are we losing a touch with reality?
Tom: Well, again, that's what puzzles...(that's really the wrong word). That's why this is an enigma. Because as you mentioned, Jim, some of these guys are good Bible teachers. And this stuff is so off...missing the mark, so far off the wall that I don't get it. And again, I don't want to just apply the Scriptures to it, but in 2 Thessalonians 2, and this could be directed at anybody, but 2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10, 11...somewhere in there, that those who have not a love of the truth, God will send strong delusion that they believe the lie. Now, Jim, that could happen to you or to me, as I set up my own agenda, or case, that's contrary to the Word of God. But it's a problem.
You know, Dave wrote an article for The Berean Call - he was addressing the promotion of sovereignty - the push of "sovereignty" among Calvinists. And I think the title of his article was "What a Sovereign God Cannot Do." Jim, what is it that God can't do?
Jim: Well, He can't sin.
Tom: That's right!
Jim: He can't do anything contrary to His character.
Tom: Absolutely! Absolutely.
Jim: He can't do anything contrary to that which He said is true.
Tom: Absolutely.
Jim: He can't appeal to men and women to repent and believe the Good News and then determine for them whether they will repent and believe the Good News.
I mean, you can't have it both ways, Tom. Either he's truly appealing to us, either as the Scripture says, He truly doesn't want anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance and salvation - or He doesn't. And if He doesn't, but He's saying these two things, He's being contrary to His own Word, which will never happen.
Tom: Right. Right. Now, along that line, you have to go to the Great Commission. And they like to point to some men out in the mission fields who are Calvinists and so on. But, Jim, it doesn't make sense! Why would a Calvinist evangelize.... And they say...some I've heard say, "Well, it's just out of obedience."
Wait. I'm not asking for "obedience." I'm asking for "make some sense of this for me!" Have you got an answer?
Jim: Well, that's a hard one, Tom. I think what happens is there are some very difficult verses in the Scripture that those who are not Calvinists have not been very forthright with. John 6:44 is an example. The Lord said, "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him." And not willing to really deal with what does that mean, it's left a vacuum to those who will say, "Well, it means this..." And their answer has been the five points of Calvinism.
But that's part of the problem. The non-Calvinist, I don't think, has does a very good job of explaining some of those hard verses. The other thing I've noticed, Tom, is in trying to understand how does this come about, is it's very rare to find a Calvinist - I don't know if I've ever met one - who didn't become one through the influence of another Calvinist. In other words, it's not through an inductive, pure study of Scripture. It's more buying into a theological overlay that seems to work and answer those difficult verses.
And I would propose to you, Tom, that the solution for all of us is mutual respect, but let's put aside all the theologians, and let's go back to Scripture and do an inductive study and say, "What do those verses mean, and how do you reconcile them with the others that seem to very clearly speak of human choice and free will, and find the solution in Scripture." And I think there is a solution. That's why I wrote the book John Calvin Goes to Berkeley. But if you want to read the Puritan writers and strong Calvinists, and all their writings, you end up with what you're seeing. In my opinion, you end up with a view that has a very distorted view of God and of salvation, but it's not a biblical view. It's a theological one.
Tom: Well, Jim, the reason I bring up the Great Commission, you spelled it out. Double predestination. And they all...even though they say, "Well, no, I don't believe in Limited Atonement," wait a minute! That doesn't fit! Or it doesn't reconcile the issue of God predestining people to the Lake of Fire who never had a chance!
So, just a few other things, because I want to move along and just touch on some things, as I have said, that trouble me - that bother me. We're not trying to offer "case-closed" kind of apologetics here, but I just want people to think about these kinds of things.
In Romans 8-9, it talks about "those whom He foreknew, He predestined." But - and you correct me here, Jim - the way I've heard that taught by Calvinists is that those whom (it really turns out to be) those whom He predestined, He predestined. In other words, His foreknowledge sovereignly gets a person to act. Is that the way you understand it?
Jim: Well, I think that's a good example of what happens when we allow a theological overlay to interpret Scripture for us. The word "to predestine" and the word "to elect" and the word "to ordain" are different Greek words, with different meanings. And when we say "to foreknow" is to predetermine or to ordain, we're mixing concepts and words, and we're redefining scripture. And we're getting that definition not from scripture but from our theology. And I think we've just got to go back and do the word studies. What does it mean... how does Scripture use the word "predestine"? How does it use the word "elect"? And let it speak for itself.
Tom: Right. So, on the one hand, what you just described is eisogesis. It's man imposing his view, his agenda, as it were, on the Scriptures, as opposed to...wait a minute! Here's what God is saying to us! Not what I think He's saying and I'm imposing my agenda on Him. That's a problem.
Jim: That's right.
Tom: Now, I'll take you to another thing that just...I don't get it, Jim! I'm sorry! The Great White Throne Judgment. Now how can that make any sense in the picture of Calvinism? How can anyone be judged when everything you articulated - John Piper, we gave R.C. Sproul, Jr. - when they're saying God is the author of everything - sin and everything - what are these people doing, standing in Revelation, you know, what are they doing standing before the Great White Throne Judgment being judged? What for?
Jim: Well, the whole thing becomes a charade. I mean, that's just not the God of the Bible. He doesn't deal in the absurd. You're right, Tom, the books are opened and the dead were judged according to the things which they're done - their deeds. I mean, if God did those deeds, He should be judged, not them.
Tom: Right. Right. Now, this is...and we've got about six minutes, Jim, but I really want to fill it with this because, again, this is what this program - part one and part two - are all about. The teaching of Calvinism reflects...somebody who buys into it reflects their attitude toward God...
Jim: That's right.
Tom: ...and if I have God wrong...look, when you became born again, when I became born again, we're new creatures in Christ. All right? All things are new for us, even though we have an old nature, and there's a battle going on. But nevertheless, I'm to grow in my relationship with God. I'm a new creature in Christ. The great commandment: I'm to love the Lord with all my heart, with all my soul, with all my mind, with all my strength. Now if I've got an erroneous view about the character of God, these things that we've been mentioning over these two weeks, Jim, how's that going to affect...I'm supposed to have an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, okay? How do these errors affect my relationship with Him? It's heartbreaking. And...it honestly is. Because you know those people love the Lord, but if they've got these ideas about Him, I don't know how you can match up a mischaracterization for Him to be kind, maybe even a slander, with the person that they're to love with all their heart, with all their soul, with all their mind, with all their strength? I don't see it happening.
Jim: Well, what does it say about God, too, that it would determine that a person will love Him? That if it isn't a freewill choice to love God, what does it say about God? It's the equivalent of a shotgun wedding. It's saying, "You will be my bride. You will love me, whether you like it or not." And that's just not the God of the Bible.
I mean, Jesus wept over the city of Jerusalem. Why? Because the Father predetermined that they would reject Him as the Messiah? Why would He weep? It just ends up with one absurdity after another.
Tom: It does. And as I said, this has got to influence somebody's understanding about God. I mean, there are some really difficult scriptures, Jim, in terms of how God acts and what He's done. Old Testament and New Testament. So, why don't I just say, "Oh forget this. God's going to do that." No. I'm growing in my relationship with Jesus Christ and my understanding of God. And as I know the character of God, that He's right, He's righteous, He just, He's truth. What is it, Deuteronomy 32:4? I know about the character of God, so if I'm getting a little, you know, upset with what I think the character of God is, I've got to change my thinking, because it doesn't line up with the character of God.
Now, in terms of having a love relationship with Him, we're supposed to reflect His traits. And if I've got the traits wrong - what traits am I talking about? His holiness, His tender mercies, His lovingkindnesses, and so forth - we're going to have a distorted view of His characteristics, and that's going to play out in our lives.
Now, Jim, I want you to comment on this. That has been demonstrated - that consequence of mischaracterizing God - in Geneva. What John Calvin did in Geneva. The Puritans. Not that they didn't do some things that were worthwhile, but look at what they did. Jonathan Edwards, for example, wrote some great stuff, but where's the other side of the love of God, and so on?
And then of late we've had theonomists and reconstructionists - these are Calvinists who want to apply the law and go by the Old Testament Law. So, to me - here's my point - this stuff plays out, Jim, in somebody's life, maybe to a small degree, but maybe even to a great degree, and that's not right.
Jim: Well, I agree with you, Tom, and all I can say is if people disagree with you, go back to the Scriptures and read the Scriptures as a whole and ask, "Is this a revelation of a God who is all day long holding out His hands to a sinful and disobedient people, who wills that they come to salvation, but they will not. (They) reject God's purpose for them. I mean, it's so clear in Scripture that God has done everything He can possibly do that every man might be saved, but they are not willing to come to God. And to turn that whole thing on its head and say, "The reason is that He's not willing to allow them," terribly distorts the Scriptures, the gospel, and the person of God.
Tom: Well, Jim, that's what I wanted to...you know, my last question to you was how does one who's caught up in the belief system of Calvinism, how does he turn away from it? And you just laid it out. The chorus of the Charles Wesley hymn comes to me: "Amazing Love, how could it be that Thou, my God, wouldst die for me?" That's why Dave named his book What Love Is This? It doesn't...what we've been talking about does not reflect the love of God, who sent His Son to die for all of us. Yeah, we have to receive that by faith and by faith alone. But God did it. He did it all.
So, Jim, we're out of time, but I thank you for getting on board with me in terms of discussing some of these issues, and I just think they're important. And I know I can speak for you in this in this. Our prayer is that those who are attracted to this be a Berean. Search the Scriptures daily to see if these things are so.
So again, Jim, thanks for being with me. God bless you, bro.
Jim: Thank you, Tom.
Gary: You've been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God's Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contract us at PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708; call us at 800-937-6638; or visit our website at thebereancall.org. I'm Gary Carmichael. Thanks for being here, and we hope you can come alongside again next week. Until then, we encourage you to search the Scriptures 24/7.
Wednesday, December 16, 2015
Monday, December 14, 2015
From David Hocking's Newsletter
NETANYAHU: ISRAEL IS A CANDLE IN THE DARKNESS
by Arutz Sheva Staff
Israel is facing a struggle over its existence and independence, just like the Maccabees did in the story of Hanukkah, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said.
The Prime Minister's remarks came at a Hanukkah candle lighting with Border Police personnel at the Western Wall.
"2,200 years ago, a handful of Jewish fighters arose and defeated what was then a global empire. This was before the rise of Rome. The Seleucid Greek Empire was then very strong and - during the reign of Antiochus IV - very cruel. Indeed, the threat was to our unity and our greatness.
The Maccabees fought, first of all to restore this spiritual independence but they were not satisfied with only that. Part of the people wanted them to suffice with that. But they were not so inclined; they fought to restore their political independence. They understood that without political independence there was no chance of ensuring spiritual independence," said Netanyahu.
"This effort, which undoubtedly ensured the future of our people, also serves as a symbol and an example to peoples in general and to the strength of a people - to strength of spirit. They dispelled the darkness - and we are fighting a great darkness today. The struggle of Israel today, as it was then, in those days at this season, is - first of all - a struggle for our existence, independence and culture but also for all humanity," he continued.
"Israel is a candle in the darkness. Around us is a great darkness and here in Jerusalem, in the State of Israel, we are lifting the banner of the independence and honor of man, for the right of the Jewish People to live free in its land and in its city, the same city that the Maccabees liberated.
"This battle has continued into our generation. In every generation they have risen up to destroy us and in every generation the Holy One, Blessed be He, has saved us from them, on condition that we hold the banner and candle and also the sword of Israel. And here, we are doing just that. First of all, to defend ourselves but I say we are defending all of humanity, as well as the culture of all humanity, against the unbridled brutality that the world is today beginning to understand.
"This struggle is appreciated by many peoples. I was just at an international conference and I saw this appreciation, the admiration that the leaders of the world have for the State of Israel and the fact that we are fighting the darkness of radical Islam, that we are fighting terrorism on a daily basis. They have great admiration for the State of Israel and for our soldiers," Netanyahu said.
He praised the Border Police officers for their "holy work" in defending the people of Israel.
"We can raise soldiers' salaries as we did today but your true salary is your contribution to the Glory of Israel, and the Glory of Israel does not lie. Here we are, standing near the Holy of Holies, not far from there. We can overcome any obstacle and any challenge and I believe that this is a symbol today, especially at his time, of the restoration of Israel and of the Glory of Israel.
"With God's help, very many around the world understand this more and more with the passing of time. I want to say the blessing over the first candle of Hanukkah. I want to wish the entire People of Israel a Happy Hanukkah," Netanyahu concluded.
David Hocking
HFT Connect
Saturday, December 12, 2015
Calvinisim versus Catholicism Part 1
Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with T. A. McMahon. I'm Gary Carmichael. Thanks for being here! In today's program, Tom begins a two-part series with guest Jim McCarthy. Here's TBC executive director, Tom McMahon.
Tom: Thanks, Gary. As Gary mentioned, our topic for today is Calvinism. It's a theology, a belief system, that's had an impact on Christianity for about 500 years, depending who's credited for starting it off. Since the theology is named after John Calvin, and based upon much of his writing, few would argue against starting with him. And of course, he lived from 1509-1564. Our guest, who will discuss the subject, is Jim McCarthy. He's the author of a number of books including John Calvin Goes to Berkeley. His other books include: The Gospel according to Rome, which, in my view - and I've told you this many times, Jim - in my view it's the best book out there for a view on Catholicism from a biblical perspective. And Jim, like myself, grew up in a Roman Catholic family, and, I should add, an extended Catholic family that included aunts who were nuns and uncles who were priests. Now I mention that because Jim's books supply information regarding the experiential side of his former faith, which to me is a major part of the practice of Roman Catholicism. Jim's ministry is Good News for Catholics. He's also very much involved in a discipleship program, primarily for young adult Christians.
Jim, welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7.
Jim: Thank you, Tom, it's always good being with you.
Tom: You know, Jim, regarding your work, and as I've told you many times, incredibly important work in my view is your work in the discipleship of young Christians. Now, I mention that because did those years of experience with mostly college-age Christians have anything to do with your motivation to write John Calvin Goes to Berkeley? And if not, what was the motivation?
Jim: Well, Tom, you know when I was...I did nine years of apologetic ministry at UC Berkeley, and during that time our student group got into a bit of controversy over the doctrines of Calvinism, and that forced me to do a lot of study on this topic. I was a young believer at the time, and it was a big topic. It was very difficult. Several years later, I decided to write a novel on this topic. I set it in Berkeley, and that's how I got the title John Calvin Goes to Berkeley. It's about a fictional student group that gets all caught up in this controversy, but it's based on a lot of things that actually happened. In fact, some of the crazier things that actually happened in the book are true to life. So it was a real-life experience for me.
Tom: You know, and as I've mentioned to you, we offer the book, and we've had people writing back and saying...you know, a mother worried about her son who's in a college group, a Bible study group or whatever, and, Jim, what your experiences [were] and what you wrote about, it's happening all over. It's amazing - absolutely amazing.
Jim: It is, Tom, and the conversations, issues that are dealt with in the book, they're real to life. It's not just meant to entertain. It's meant to help the reader understand the controversy, understand the scriptures on both sides, and understand some of the attitudes that go along with this controversy that are dividing the church and causing a lot of damage to the Christian church. And just so your readers know, I'm not a Calvinist. The Calvinist side of the article doesn't come out as well because I'm not a Calvinist! I can't really represent a view truly that I disagree with, but I try to be honest and fair about it. And people have objected, Tom, they say, "Oh, you know, it's...the Calvinists get beat up at the end and lose the argument." And all I can say is, "Write your own novel! If you want a different ending, that's the freedom of fiction. You get to write your own book. That's my book."
Tom: And, Jim, you're going in a place that...I don't mean this to be cavalier or even to be sarcastic, but as you know, The Berean Call, we're no strangers to controversy. And we don't look for it. Dave never did, but yet it's just the way things play out. So I've had people say, "Hey, I heard you say this on your radio program. I'd like to come on and give our point of view," and so on.
My response is, "Hey, if you want to do that, get your own radio program." And that's not to be smart-alecky or whatever. The point is that we have a perspective. The people listening to our program today are going to get a perspective from you and from me. They need to be Bereans and search not only the Scriptures but check things out themselves.
But we are giving a view - just as you mentioned with your book - you had to do a lot of research; you had to figure out what this was all about. Dave Hunt, when he wrote What Love Is This?, had to do the same thing. And I remember, after the first edition, he said, "Tom, I laid some stuff out, but I have to go deeper to get better prepared to handle this." Because they do make it - and I mean this - they make it incredibly complex, which is one of the things that we'll talk about.
But before we get to our concerns about the teachings of Calvinism and although the number of those subscribing to them is growing quite rapidly, there are yet many Christians - especially young Christians, and I know you've run into this, Jim - who give you a blank look when you mention the term "Calvinism." Now, on the other hand, if they've never heard of it, it could be a good situation because, well, they're not being subjected to it. However, an ignorance of what others are trying to entice a person with can make him or her very vulnerable to what's being taught.
So mounting a defense or generating discernment would be difficult at best. So, in case we have some listeners who know little if anything about Calvinism, we could certainly recommend books like Dave Hunt's, as I mentioned, What Love Is This?
But that may not help some of our listeners right now. So, what I'd like to do, Jim, is just briefly go over some basics, and I think the way to do it is to deal with the acronym T.U.L.I.P., which lays out the major tenets of Calvinism. So, maybe we can get through this briefly, Jim. What I want to do is I'll give what the letters stand for "T.U.L.I.P." And then maybe give me just a brief definition or a perspective on that.
So, the first is "T" for T.U.L.I.P. - "Total Depravity." What's that?
Jim: Total Depravity is the belief that as a result of Adam's sin, man is desperately corrupt, in total bondage to an evil nature, spiritually dead, and cannot respond to God. He's just completely and so thoroughly corrupt that for all practical purposes he's like a cadaver in response to God.
Tom: We totally believe in...well, I shouldn't use that...but we believe in total depravity - but not to the point where somebody can't cry out to God based on our reading of the Scriptures. Would you agree with that?
Jim: Well, the way I put it, Tom, is the term "Total Depravity" carries a lot of theological significance with it, that it's a term associated with the Five Points of Calvinism. And I think you'd agree, Tom, and certainly I do, that man is a sinner, and there's nothing we can do to save ourselves...
Tom: Absolutely.
Jim: There's nothing we can do to make up for our sins. We're all sinners. We've all "fallen short of the glory of God...There's none that's righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:23, 10).
But the term "total depravity" is not a biblical term. And if we want to use that to describe what I just said, we're taking on some theological "baggage," if you will, that's associated with Calvinism. So I don't like to use that term anymore because I don't believe that we're unresponsive to God. I don't believe we're so in bondage to sin that we can't even respond to the drawing work of the Holy Spirit before we're born again. I just don't see that in Scripture.
Tom: Well, you see, that's why I like you pointing out the term "cadaver." That's the way they explain it. "You're just like a cadaver." Wait a minute! Can a cadaver sin? So, we have some options and some points in there.
All right, "U" in T.U.L.I.P. - "Unconditional Election." What's that?
Jim: Well, unconditional election is a belief that before God made the world, He chose, or elected, for salvation those whom He pleased to save. And His choice was not conditioned. It wasn't based upon any virtue in these individuals, any meritorious acts. It wasn't even based on the fact that they would one day believe in Jesus. This choice was independent of all influences. It had its origin solely in the secret counsel of God and in this sense, it was unconditional.
Tom: Right. And, they would add, "based on God's good pleasure." That's what they would throw in here. So that's Unconditional Election.
What about Limited Atonement?
Jim: Limited Atonement is the belief that Christ's blood was of infinite value but limited in its purpose and applications. He died only to redeem the elect - those whom the Father had given to Him. And it's sometimes called the Doctrine of Particular Redemption.
Tom: Right. What about Irresistible Grace, the "I" in T.U.L.I.P.?
Jim: That's the belief that Calvinists hold that when God calls somebody by the Holy Spirit, that person will and must come to faith in Christ - that He cannot resist the grace of God.
Tom: And the final one of T.U.L.I.P. is the "P" - Perseverance of the Saints?
Jim: This one's a little bit difficult, because it sort of sounds like when you say "Perseverance of the Saints" that a person can know they're saved, and if you're saved, you'll be eternally saved. But it's not exactly that belief. It's the belief that if you are saved, you will persevere to the end of your life, walking in grace and obedience to God, and you will be eternally saved. And so it actually results in a fair measure of uncertainty because nobody really knows till they get to the end if they're really going to make it.
Tom: Right.
Jim: And so, it's the view that the elect cannot fall from grace, but you only know you're amongst the elect if you persevere to the end.
Tom: Now, Jim, as I mentioned earlier, for our listeners, if they need more details, more...as I said, Dave has a book; he also did a book with James White, a Calvinist apologist, and in that book you'll get two perspectives: you'll get Dave's perspective and James White's. So I would refer to that or point you to those books, which we offer here. But I don't want this - we're having a conversation here - it's not meant to be an apologetic for our side vs. their side. Over the years that I have looked at Calvinism, just like you did in writing your book, Jim, but even beyond that, there are some things that just mystify me - that are a puzzlement - because...I'm sure it's the same with you, we have some really good friends...I have family members who are Calvinist. And they're bright, they're intelligent, they claim to love the Lord, and I have no doubt about that, and so on, but I don't get it - how some of these things that we'll address here, how they can rationalize, how they can understand them. Anyway, it makes no sense to me. And that's the way we're going to treat this. These are just general observations about Calvinism that I would love for people to think about - certainly pray about - especially if they're attracted to Calvinism.
As I said, we could spend...we just gave the five points, and we could spend probably a couple of sessions on that. But rather than that, I want to approach the things, or speak about the things, that are, in my mind, puzzling, and things that are contradictory to what the Scriptures teach.
Now, Jim, as you know, because I sent you the article...for December, the article in The Berean Call is "The Enigma of Calvinism," which, hopefully you read, and then I point out some things that are mystifying to me. That can't be squared with either Scripture or common sense. And I pointed to many of those things - pointed them out over the years, and I have yet to get reasonable responses to just some of these questions that I've had on my heart and mind. For example: Calvinism is historically protestant. That is, it "protests" against the Catholic Church. Now, just to let our viewers know, Jim, you are a protestant; I am a protestant. But anybody who's just an evangelical isn't necessarily a protestant. Because we came out of the Roman Catholic Church, so we protested against it.
Now, that being said, some Calvinists are militantly anti-Catholic. Yet all Calvinists, including John Calvin himself, esteem Augustine, who was the father/doctor of Roman Catholicism, almost to the point of idolatry. He's numero uno. Some people think it's Calvin, but Calvin looked to Augustine. What is the Catholic connection, Jim, with Calvinism?
Jim: Well, I think the first thing I'd want to say, Tom, is that there is a strong connection. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong because some things in Catholicism are correct, for instance the doctrine of the Trinity.
Tom: Right.
Jim: But it does cause us to realize when you look at the five points of Calvinism and what Calvin taught about predestination-election, if it comes from Catholicism, at least we should re-examine it and realize this not a distinctive protestant doctrine. Most people don't realize that John Calvin as a young man studied for the Catholic priesthood. He studied at the University of Paris and as a young man transferred over to Law. His father had a bit of a falling out with the Church and persuaded him to go into Law instead of the priesthood.
He was very young when he started studying the Bible and left the Catholic Church - 24 years old. It's a little bit unclear exactly when he had a conversion experience. He actually says very little about that.
But when he was 25, still a very young man, he wrote Institutes of the Christian Religion, which is considered the most influential, important book of the Protestant Reformation. And it's a very large book, often published in two volumes, and when you go to the section on "Predestination" and read it, just in the section on Predestination, he quotes Augustine 27 times. And if you look at his wording and compare it to the wording of Thomas Aquinas, the primary Catholic theologian of the Middle Ages, a lot of it's almost word for word. And what appears happened is that when he wrote the Institutes of the Christian Religion and tried to explain the full breadth of Christian doctrine, a lot of it he just carried over from his training for the Catholic priesthood. And the section on Predestination Election is essentially Roman Catholic.
He says what Aquinas says. And if you look at Aquinas, Aquinas quotes Augustine - it goes back to Augustine, who was one of the Doctors of the Roman Catholic Church. And Augustine says the number of the predestined is certain - it cannot be increased or decreased. That's what Aquinas says. That's what Calvin says.
He says what Aquinas says. And if you look at Aquinas, Aquinas quotes Augustine - it goes back to Augustine, who was one of the Doctors of the Roman Catholic Church. And Augustine says the number of the predestined is certain - it cannot be increased or decreased. That's what Aquinas says. That's what Calvin says.
So it doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. It just means - it doesn't necessarily mean it's right, because John Calvin, the great reformer of the protestant reformation, said it. The fact that he rejected so much of Roman Catholicism, particularly the gospel of salvation, would cause one to say, "Well, what about his doctrine of predestination? Is that biblical?"
Tom: Yeah, but Jim, to me, there's more to it. I hear and see and read these individuals so esteeming Augustine that it just knocks me backward. For example, certainly Augustine's teaching on predestination, but we have so much more that he bought into, or influenced - maybe even inspired. We have the Mass, the major dogmas of Roman Catholicism, the real Presence of Christ in the bread and wine in Mass, the Eucharist as a sacrifice - an ongoing immolation; that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation. He taught that Mary was sinless and a perpetual virgin, and that the Apocrypha was part of the Old Testament Canon. And of course the popes were a fulfillment of apostolic succession, and that Christ would not literally reign - here we have amillennialism - that Christ would not literally reign a thousand years on the earth, and that all spiritual authority...he taught that spiritual authority rests in the Roman Catholic Church.
Now, here's a quote from Augustine, and I know people have been saying, "Well, he didn't really say that; didn't really mean it." But this was from...you know, he dealt with the Manichaeans, and he wrote a letter to Mani...well, the letter is "Against the Letter of Mani Called 'The Foundation.'" But here's what Augustine had to say: "If you should find someone who does not yet believe in the gospel, what would you answer him when he says, 'I do not believe'? Indeed, I would not believe in the gospel itself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so."
And, Jim, as you pointed out, the gospel of the Catholic Church - well, you wrote a book: The Gospel according to Rome. It's works salvation. It's antithetical to the biblical gospel.
So, again, why this man is such an icon with the Calvinists, I find it just hard to believe and certainly contradictory.
So, Jim, I continually hear - and here's a simple one; maybe people out there, somebody's pressed them with this - they would say, a Calvinist, for example, would say, "So what are you? Are you a Calvinist, or are you Arminian?" meaning, as the Calvinist would say, well no, they believe in eternal security. You alluded to that earlier, and that the Arminian believes he can lose his salvation, so you're one or the other. Are you, Jim? Are you one or the other?
Jim: Well, I don't think I would like to be put in those two categories. The truth be known, Tom, the difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is not that great. Jacob Arminius essentially was a Calvinist. He studied in Geneva under Theodore Beza, who was John Calvin's successor at the academy in Geneva. And he went back to Amsterdam as a Calvinist reformed pastor. And he objected to not Calvin but to what the next generation had turned Calvin into, which was essentially the five points of Calvinism that we reviewed. His argument was that under Theodore Beza, Calvin's position had become more extreme and unbiblical. And he was arguing against that. And I would say, Tom, that we would be wise to step out of that whole historic debate and just go back to Scripture as good Bereans and say, "What do the Scriptures teach?" Frankly, I don't care what Augustine taught. I don't care what Aquinas taught, or Calvin taught, or Arminius taught. What do the Scriptures teach? And I think that's where we're going to find the answers and we're going to find the truth.
Tom: I couldn't agree with you more, Jim. And that's why I've gotten away - even though we're giving some reasons and some answers here for these things, but the heart has got to be the solution not just to the controversy of Calvinism and Arminianism; it has to do with "What does the Word of God say?" We're in the apostasy. I don't think anybody could deny that. Well, what's the solution? What's the prevention program? The B-I-B-L-E, the Word of God. It's God's direct communication to us, to mankind. So, on the one hand, I'm not saying that God can't raise up teachers - you know, the Word of God says that. But no, we start with "the law and the testimony. If they speak not according to this word," as Isaiah wrote, "there's no light in them." So that's our heart.
Now, Jim, I do want to mention something about eternal security. You know, I've had people tell me, "I'm a one-point Calvinist. I don't buy those other four. But I do buy the 'P' - Perseverance of the saints."
So I have to say, "Well, could you explain that to me?" And just as you explained it, it has to do with a kind of... "How do I know that I'm one of the elect? Well, I'm going to know it by my fruit. I'm going to know it by my performance," and all that. Jim! That's not eternal security! That's what we had...How long were you a Roman Catholic?
Jim: How long was I a Roman Catholic? Twenty-five years.
Tom: Yeah. Okay, I had 30 years in it. That's what we...that was it. You know, you sin, you go Mass - well, you go to confession - and then you go to Mass, and then if you get a mortal sin again, you've got to do it over and over. It's a works salvation process, and to me, that's why I point to Perseverance of the saints - as Catholics, we had to persevere. We wanted to - if we were going to die, or...when we die, we wanted to be in the state of Sanctifying Grace, right?
Jim: That's right. That's right.
Tom: So, it's just kind of a problem. Now, Jim, we've got about three minutes left, and I tell you what I want to do in our next session. You know, as I mentioned, I have loved ones, I have friends, people I have just the greatest respect for, and some of them are really terrific Bible teachers - except for this area! At least, in my view. So what I want to talk about, and primarily it deals with predestination. You know, that's really the heart of it. And some people say, "Well, you know, I'm not an extreme Calvinist. I'm not a hyper-Calvinist," and so on. But, Jim, we just went through the T.U.L.I.P. - the five points of Calvinism - and they're all connected! You could say, "Well, I don't believe in Limited Atonement." Well, wait a minute. Do you believe in Irresistible Grace?
They're just connected. That's my point. So, the Lord willing... Well, do you want to comment on that? We've got a couple of minutes - we've got about two minutes. Do you want to comment on that and then, by the grace of God, we'll get going and we'll pick up with this next week. So what do you have to say?
Jim: Well, I agree, Tom. You can't take part of the system without taking the whole system. I could agree with portions - some things that are said in the definition of all five points. But when I say I hold to one of those points, they all kind of fit together - if I'm going to take one in its fullness, you're kind of locked into the others. And people need to realize that, because you can't be a four-point Calvinist. It just doesn't really make sense if you understand the theology of it. If you're a four-point, you're a five, whether you like it or not.
Tom: Yeah, and as we mentioned earlier, you talked about doing the research. This is an incredible system, because if you say (going back to) "I'm a one-point Calvinist," well, that's not realistic. Most of them would say I'm a four-point, dropping off Limited Atonement, and so one. Well, wait a minute. There are twenty-seven points, there are sixteen-point Calvinists. There are lapsarian, super-lapsarian, there are amillennial - John MacArthur claims to be a pre-millennial. So there are all kinds of... So I like to ask them when somebody says they're a Calvinist...and somebody could say yes to all these things that I've mentioned. It's, again, my trouble with it is it's a complex system. It's not the simple gospel that I've come to know and accept from the Scriptures.
So, anyway, Jim, thanks for going through this first part with me, and the Lord willing, we'll get back at it next week.
Jim: Thank you, Tom.
Gary: You've been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 with T. A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God's Word. For a complete list of materials and free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708; call us at 800-937-6638; or visit or website at thebereancall.org. I'm Gary Carmichael, thanks for joining us, and we hope you can tune in again next week. Until then, we encourage you to search the Scriptures 24/7.
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